small group around obama, axelrod particularly, anita dunn also, david plouffe less so a little bit ron klain a little less so said hold it. we've got to make this guy look presidential. romney is killing himself. we don't need to be -- the word they kept using was caustic. so they gave him a lot of contradictory advice. he himself was conflicted. and my sources say right before he left for that disastrous prep debate in nevada, look, i don't know what to do here. you're giving me contradictory advice. >> here is a tough question. maybe you don't know the answer to. this tell me. john kerry was the head of the debate team. he was the guy playing him. was he part of the team that said get tough and the other guys overruled him later? what happened? what was his role in this? >> i would defer to glenn. but generally john kerry was not blamed by the president or the president's high command for his poor denver debate performance. they said kerry did his job effectively. and the proof of that, chris, the fact that john kerry is about to become secretary kerry instead of senator john kerry.